LEAKED: - The "Afghan Papers"

[FredK]

....... we are kept ignorant of what is going on by those who are supposed to be looking out for our own best interests.......

Gary

Gary it's all about a pipeline through Afghan and not paying the Taliban when they had control of the country in 2005.

OBL is long gone from the region and all we F'ing doing is setting up another puppet government.

[TxMusky]

Every war ever fought was fought because one side wanted something that the other side had, no surprise there. The setting up of "friendly governments, kings, rulers....has been going on since time started and will continue until it ends, it is human nature. Even our electoral system is a working model of that, people voting and campaigning for who they want in office for the simple fact they believe they will receive help or support for their efforts and agendas. That again is no surprise, the only difference is very few if any lives are lost.

Right or wrong in the big picture the boy who stole the documents and aided in their posting knew the rules. If he didnt it was a big mistake on his part and he will be tried in a court of law and his guilt or innocence will be judged by that. Just because he did not like or agree with something, does not mean he can take matters into his own hands and possibly put many more innocent people in danger. He could have reported to congress or even someone else up his chain of command, but going "rogue" with a group like he did was a violation of the law and treasonous, no matter what he was trying to accomplish.

[RED-PSD-VAN]

Every war ever fought was fought because one side wanted something that the other side had, no surprise there. The setting up of "friendly governments, kings, rulers....has been going on since time started and will continue until it ends, it is human nature. Even our electoral system is a working model of that, people voting and campaigning for who they want in office for the simple fact they believe they will receive help or support for their efforts and agendas. That again is no surprise, the only difference is very few if any lives are lost.

Right or wrong in the big picture the boy who stole the documents and aided in their posting knew the rules. If he didnt it was a big mistake on his part and he will be tried in a court of law and his guilt or innocence will be judged by that. Just because he did not like or agree with something, does not mean he can take matters into his own hands and possibly put many more innocent people in danger. He could have reported to congress or even someone else up his chain of command, but going "rogue" with a group like he did was a violation of the law and treasonous, no matter what he was trying to accomplish.

So....... does his whistle-blower status achieved by revealing the deception by the government of its failures in the war, and their actions, some of which border on war-crimes, over-rule the crime of revealing these documents, and raise him closer to hero status, rather than criminal??

If you think those who support punishing whistle-blowers are going to make your government more accountable, you are mistaken.

You are only making it easier for them to continue to get away with similar deception and secrecy, and to hide that which should be out in the open for all to scrutinize.......

Gary

[TxMusky]

The proper channels for "whistle blower" status were not followed. Yes it does over rule the actions, as two wrongs do not make a right. That is why we have laws. If he were going to go against any activity, giving it to a rogue news organization is not the proper way to go about it. As divided as our politicians are he could have surely found an American congress person who could have handled the situation in the appropriate manner lawful manner.

Are you advocating that its okay for anybody to hack into a secure system and steal documents and give them to whomever they deem can do the "dirty deed" no matter who is at fault? I do not know how your laws work in Canada, but our here are readily understandable and this soldier with a top security clearence knew he was going above and beyond breaking a minor law. So without positive proof or an explanation by either side you yourself have tried convicted and are ready to sentence the American government for something a snot nosed kid disagreed with and illegally took and distributed to othe radical sources? I find it hard to be convinced that your decision making is any different than his and by only using one side of the argument you have made your decision and found fault.

I am sure you are well aware that there is more than one country involved in this "war crime" incident as you call it, so it would seem a little premature to assume that only one country, America, supposedly committed this act, that none of the others would be raising some concerns about this as well. Since no other government that is involved, nor any other credible or otherwise news agencies that are not only following the war, but embedded in both sides of the conflict have raised a stink about any of this, it would tell me that this one particular group found them a sucker, paid him some cash and published his stolen works to further their agenda. It has suckered many others as well I see.....and you are also enabling them to continue their deception and secrecy and illegal activities by falling into their trap and web of lies. Your only failing is remembering that this is all out in the open, not only to the media but to the people involved on both sides that are right there in the middle of the action.

You do not like Americans or our government so anything at all you can find to tarnish us is taken, by you, to be the absolute truth without question. It is just another cause for you to rail against us whether it be made up of lies or not. My hope is that the people that are still over there involved in this war are not suddenly put into more harms way because a bunch of fanatics have suddenly given the enemy more information to hurt more servicemen and women, who are only there doing a job. They also have families too, and do not deserve to be the pawns in a stupid political chess game that some radical group decides to play.

[RED-PSD-VAN]

Yes I agree, there are 'proper channels' where such evidence can be brought to light.

But if those channels are the exact same ones that are keeping the evidence from your own people in the first place, just how likely is he to be sucessful in bringing these documents to reach the light of day....????

...slim.....little....and none.....!!!!!

Gary

[mgrist]

The American people don't have what it takes to win a war! Vietnam anybody??
The government needs to do what it takes to keep our children alive, to keep our country safe and I don't need to know about it.
I as a carpenter, the secretary downtown or the salesman in the suburbs should not have a say in how a war is fought!

[Scooter]

As with ALL technology there are advantages and disadvantages.

While touted as an efficient means to surgically take out enemy combatants without any danger to the pilots doing so, the downside of remote fighters and guided bombs is that they do rely on sometimes 'questionable' and less than reliable intel from various sources, including those who are on the ground, to guide them to where enemy combatants are located.

Anyone who doesn't see the potential error, and who isn't aware of the sort of mistakes this technology has caused, simply doesn't get it.

These leaked papers make it clear there are significant screw-ups the military and politicians make sure the general populace doesn't hear about.

While some may merely brush this aside as simply the expected collateral damage of war, what they miss entirely is we are allowing ourslves to be among that collateral damage when we are kept ignorant of what is going on by those who are supposed to be looking out for our own best interests.......

Gary

Nice series of accusations. Do you have a source?

I do find it curious that you think every action should be open to immediate public scrutiny. I am not a military person, but it seems to me that it would seriously inhibit them doing their job, if they had to report everything that they did and have it totally scrutinized.

As for killing civilians, it has happened anytime that there is a war. It happened in the second world war when carpet bombing took place in Germany, and the BLitzkriegs happened in England. Not to mention the bombings of Pearl Harbor. It happened in this century when the Taliban organized an attack in the United States and killed 3000 people. That is exactly why it is so important that we keep the war over there, and why they really, really want to bring the war here.
Seems common sense to me. From the sounds of your posts, you think that the world would be better served if the canadian snipers had to post the location of where they were going to be shooting from, and detain then prosecute every person that they were going to shoot, before they put them a half mile away to shoot them.
This thread, and the attacks on the US methods of war are flat out silly.

[Greenie]

Leak about Valerie Plame awful - heads should roll. Leak about Afghanistan operations / security great. That about sum it up? Who tells you what to like or what to hate?

[RED-PSD-VAN]

Nice series of accusations. Do you have a source?

You can go to The Guardian's site and see what they posted.

You can also go to many other Nations news outlets too.

The US Reported on some of the content of the leaked papers, although I have not checked all your sources, so you may Find Fox news is doing its typical partisan biased spinning....

I do find it curious that you think every action should be open to immediate public scrutiny. I am not a military person, but it seems to me that it would seriously inhibit them doing their job, if they had to report everything that they did and have it totally scrutinized.

Since when did I make this claim?

I never said all Military activity had to be published.

That is not what this is about!

What it is about is the Military and Government deception by spinning the outcome of the war in order to distort the results, to make it sound more successful than it really is, and to cover-up what we should hear: - such as friendly fire casualties being listed as enemy fire casualties; mission outcomes being touted as more successful than reality; procedural screw-ups that sometimes resulted in wounded and killed soldiers and civilians; lack of co-ordination between allied forces to the point of risking each other's safety; Suspicious activities and criminal activities that included taking vengeance on civilians and combatants in ways that can be considered war crimes; etc. etc......

The issues is why is the military first of all carrying out such actions; and why are they getting away with hiding them from us?

As for killing civilians, it has happened anytime that there is a war. It happened in the second world war when carpet bombing took place in Germany, and the BLitzkriegs happened in England. Not to mention the bombings of Pearl Harbor. It happened in this century when the Taliban organized an attack in the United States and killed 3000 people. That is exactly why it is so important that we keep the war over there, and why they really, really want to bring the war here.
Seems common sense to me. From the sounds of your posts, you think that the world would be better served if the canadian snipers had to post the location of where they were going to be shooting from, and detain then prosecute every person that they were going to shoot, before they put them a half mile away to shoot them.
This thread, and the attacks on the US methods of war are flat out silly.

Please don't put words in my mouth you assume I would say, when I clearly have not!

Yes, there was killing of civilians in every major war.

And the reason why our leaders who allowed such actions did not get tried for war crimes, while those who were caught on the other side were tried is simply because our side won.

Don't delude yourself into thinking that the likes of Air Vice Marshal Arthur "Bomber" Harris, of the RAF Bomber Command, would not be tried and likely executed by Germany for his tactic of carpet bombing.

Where this is different is the military has chosen to spin the reality and cover-up its major screw-ups and actions, including those that do meet current definitions of war crimes.

Gary

[wacojoe]

Leak about Valerie Plame awful - heads should roll. Leak about Afghanistan operations / security great. That about sum it up? Who tells you what to like or what to hate?

Oooow, that one is going to leave a mark.

[SBA]

. It happened in this century when the Taliban organized an attack in the United States and killed 3000 people. .

And , this is exactly the B/S the USA leadership wants you to believe today. The Taliban had NOTHING to do with 9/11. Read on ...

http://www.lewrockwell.com/margolis/margolis22.html

[haikon]

The taliban was letting AQ train in their country, openly and gladly. That was their punishment for the role in 9/11, just like Saddam had camps in his country that he knew nothing about per his claims, and the second excuse for taking him out after WMD was reported as a lie.

The war crimes that were brought up, and reported, were all dismissed after the courtsmartialing completed, so apparently there isnt as much as we are led to believe. Murtha should have been dismissed for that fiasco.